so, without further ado, let’s meet the3 major party candidates for governor in alphabetical order. democrat mark dayton (applause, cheers), . mark dayton: thank you, thank you very much. gary eichten: republican tom emmer, (applause,cheers) gary eichten: independence party candidatetom horner. (applause, cheers)
gary eichten: so there are your candidates.one other thing, if i may before we get started. this is the 26th debate that these gentlemenhave participated in since the primary in august. twenty-six where all three have beenonstage. that’s more than 2 a week. now in most states, you’re lucky if your candidatesfor governor have one debate, two debates,
maybe three debates if they really go wildand crazy. we’ve had a chance to hear from these candidates over two dozen times. atlength, in remarkable detail, on the major issues facing the state of minnesota. i thinkthat the state of minnesota has been very well served by these gentlemen and i thinkthey all deserve a rich round of applause. (applause) 05:48 gary eichten: all right, having built themup, let’s tear them down! (candidates laugh) just kidding. tom horner; no you’re not. gary eichten: (laughs) i wanted to start gentlemenwith a couple of questions, one for each of
you about this minnesota public radio humphreyinstitute poll that came out last week. not the horserace poll. this is the one that askedabout attitudes, minnesotans’ attitudes about taxes and spending. one of the findings,representative emmer, was that 2/3 of the people surveyed said they want to see highertaxes! two thirds. does that give you any second thoughts about your position opposingany tax increase? tom emmer: no, actually, gary it does not.and the other part of it was they want to see less spending and they want to see lessservices, which i found interesting as well when you talk about this survey. we don’tknow, the 3 of us, and maybe my 2 colleagues have actually studied the questions that wereasked in the survey, but a lot of times you
get the response based on the question. iwould say this: to those people that are talking about higher taxes like my colleagues, itreally isn’t a matter of not having enough revenue. it’s a matter of not setting ourpriorities and making sure that government purchases the services within the revenueswe have. i give the example all the time. you’ve got the state of minnesota that spendsclose to 60 billion dollars every 2 years. the state of colorado is roughly the samegeographic size and i believe it’s within about .5% of our population. granted, nothing’sapples to apples. but the state of colorado spends closer to 40 billion dollars every2 years. and again, it’s a matter of making sure that the resources we have are purchasingthe services that we expect. and that’s
gonna be important for the next governor,next legislature to explain to people this is what we’re doin. and again, i’m theonly one that has put out a budget that balances the state’s budget within the additionalrevenues that we’re gonna have. about 7 to 8% in more revenues in the next 2 years.and i think that’s what the public expects. they want you to provide the services withinthe revenue that government has. gary eichten: but this doesn’t give youany pause that perhaps a large number of minnesotans actually want and support tax increases. tom emmer: actually no gary, again i’llsay it, minnesotans want good government. they want efficient government.
gary eichten: okay. tom emmer: right now they’ve been led tobelieve by this same mantra that we hear, even from my colleagues, that you’ve gottaraise billions of dollars of new taxes or we’re gonna cut your services. that’snot true. it’s time to start redesigning government to deliver those services in anefficient manner and within the resources that we have. once we start doing that, letpeople keep more of their resources and start growin jobs again in the state of minnesota.that’s how you get your economy movin again (audience applause). gary eichten: tom, tom horner, same poll saysthat all these people who say they like higher
taxes are not fond of raising the sales tax.they’re all suppor-, not all of them, but most of them, vast majority prefer raisingthe income tax. do you have any second thoughts about your plan? tom horner: no, because i do think that weneed tax reform. and what we have seen is that when minnesotans had the opportunityto vote on a tax in 2008, they voted overwhelmingly to raise the sales tax to protect the environment,to protect our natural assets, to invest in the arts. it led the ballot. so i think whatwe really see is that when minnesotans believe that the money is going to be used for purposesthat they believe in, they will support tax reform. and that’s what i’ve proposed.y’know, what we see in the polls is when
you ask them, “do you want to get a freeride by cutting spending for the poor?†“do you want to get a free ride by taxing4% and everybody else gets off scot free?†of course. everybody in a poll is going tosay, “sure, don’t tax me, tax the guy behind the tree.†when they actually havehad to vote on it, when senator dayton last ran for governor, he supported an expansionof sales tax. when you look at democrats in the senate, they’ve supported proposalscloser to mine. the business-led tax reform commission appointed by governor pawlentyended up where i did. and so i think as minnesotans understand what i’m really proposing isreduce the sales tax. cut it. so that when you’re buying big-ticket items, those itemsthat really affect a family’s budget, appliances,
furniture, you’re gonna pay less. and thenwe will broaden the base but do it in a way that’s fair. i think that’s what minnesotansare looking for with the leadership to say we then will spend the money in a way thatyou can trust. in a way that goes for the good purposes that minnesotans want. gary eichten: mark dayton, the other halfof that poll is, representative emmer pointed out, (applause) other half of that poll foundthat a majority of those surveyed favor, actually favor smaller government and reduce services.not the more expansive government that you’ve talked about, really. any second thoughtsabout the promises, the goals that you’ve laid out in the campaign?
mark dayton: well, i’m not proposing expandedstate government gary. in fact i’ll work with private sector advisors to look at howwe can find greater administrative efficiencies and savings that way, but 95% of the statebudget goes half to education, 30% to health and human services, 9% to public safety, 5%to – 5% public safety, 9% to property tax relief and local government aids, and 3% tothe debt service. and the reality is y’know, we’re gonna have 124,000 more people livingin minnesota over the next 2 years and we’re gonna have 14,000 more students in our publick-12 schools. so y’know if you look at some of these increases that representative emmerrefers to, the reality is those dollars are going to help people. they’re going to helpschool children, to prevent having more districts
go to 4-day school weeks, reduce the overcrowdingin our classrooms, to work with aging population, y’know 88% of our health and human servicesbudget goes to the elderly and to children and to people with disabilities. so y’knowthese dollars are translated into services for people, and they’re reflective of thevalues of minnesotans. and that’s why we’ve built a great state, because minnesotans recognizeour future does depend on education. they recognize that the elderly, those with disabilitiesare peoples who often need help. and so, i just wanna continue those essential services.(applause) gary eichten: is it possible, is it possiblethat all 3 of you are going to have a really tough time getting your programs, whateverthose programs are, through the minnesota
legislature? doesn’t appear to be, we’retalking to the legislative leaders the other day, and it doesn’t appear like there’sa big appetite for raising the income tax on the wealthiest, doesn’t appear to bemuch of an appetite for expanding the sales tax to clothing, doesn’t appear to be muchof an appetite for cutting 6 billion dollars in state spending. so whoever gets electedhere, how are you gonna get your program through the legislature? mark dayton. mark dayton: well, the key of course is weneed to do job creation in minnesota as we do in this country. and y’know that willincrease revenues by more people working and paying taxes. until that happens, the realityis for every dollar of revenue you don’t
raise, you have to cut a dollar in spending.so y’know there will be 201 legislators, each elected in their own right, properlyso, and they’ll have their own opinions about the governor’s proposal, but the bottomline is the end of session, both the legislature and the governor have to meet a constitutionalrequirement to balance the budget. and so there will be a negotiation, there will bea collaboration, and that will be part of the process, and if i’m governor i’llcertainly be engaged in. gary eichten: tom emmer. tom ememr: well no, i think that we have thebest opportunity to pass what i’m talking about. first gary, we’ve gotta start, yourquestion is based on the premises that we
gotta cut 6 billion dollars in spending. wekeep saying it that way and my colleagues keep talking about 5 to 6 billion dollarsthat we’re in deficit, as if we’re cutting spending. the next governor, the next legislaturein this state will actually have 7 to 8% more revenue to spend. that’s almost 3 billiondollars more than current general fund spending in the state of minnesota. so let’s startfrom the premise that we have to operate within the additional revenues that we’re goingto have. and i’ve proposed to get jobs growin again in this state immediately. i’ve proposedreducing the corporate franchise tax by a point in each of the next 2 years, that putsapproximately 360 million dollars in the hands of our employers to start making capital investmentsin hiring again, proposed a 10% exclusion
on gross earnings for small businesses, thoses-corporations and llcs, those people that actually file personal income tax returns,not corporate returns, expanding the angel investment tax credit, the research and developmenttax credit, reducing commercial property taxes, gary, these things have bipartisan supportin the legislature. mr. horner’s sales tax proposal has a couple of people that haveproposed it in the past, it has absolutely no chance of getting through the legislature,and senator dayton’s proposal actually got 7 votes out of the house of representativeslast year. so i would say the plan that we’ve provided is not only balanced and living withinits means but it provides instant incentives for growing jobs in this state that enjoysupport from both republicans and democrats.
(applause, cheers) gary eichten: tom horner. tom horner: gary, i think you look at a person’strack record. i think you look at the experience. i think you look at people who have actuallybrought democrats, republicans, independents together to get things done. so you have tomemmer, who has spent 6 years in the legislature, fighting democrats and republicans, who takesa position that is very very far to the right. the most conservative position, even amongrepublicans, just to do everything by cutting spending. as we’ve talked about, mark dayton,has spent 35 years running for office after office after office, serves 1 term, then he’sout. how does that build any kind of coalition,
any kind of support? where’s the track recordof getting things done? and then in the campaign today, takes a position very very far to theleft, only as tom emmer said, only a handful of people who would even acknowledge the needto come anywhere close to what he’s proposing. how do you build any kind of coalition? there’sthe problem. it’s why every former governor who has endorsed, the people who have beenthere, who understand it, who know how to get things done, have said i’m the candidatewho can build these coalitions, who can build the bridges. and i do disagree with tom emmer,that there’s not support there. quite the contrary. it’s not just a handful of people.it’s the chair of the senate tax committee. it’s the people who are going to lead thejob creation in minnesota who have endorsed
the kind of proposal i’m talking about.(applause) gary eichten: if you just tuned in, the 3major party candidates for governor are on stage at the fitzgerald theater. i’m garyeichten and they are here for a final debate. one last final debate before tuesday’s election.let’s go to the audience here at the fitzgerald theater for some questions for the candidates.curtis gilbert. curtis gilbert: yes gary, i’m here withbonnie, she lives in brooklyn center, i should note that she’s wearing a mark dayton t-shirt.but she’s got a question for all the candidates, and another important thing is that she’sa special ed teacher. bonnie: the special ed is often pitted againstgeneral ed for funds, and i’m wondering
if you guys have plans to met special ed mandatesand also be fair to the regular ed, general education programs. gary eichten: tom emmer, you wanna go first? tom emmer: absolutely. bonnie, i think oneof the problems with our special education funding is that it’s not a set amount. it’sbased on number of students. it gives the wrong incentives, and it’s not, it’s notsomething that we can count on from year to year. and it creates this imbalance. i thinkfirst off, first and foremost, when we talk about our k-12 education system, we’ve gottatalk about reform from top to bottom. we’ve gotta talk about making sure that the roughly14 billion dollars that we’ve proposed should
go into k-12 education next, in the next 2years, that that is, it allows professional educators and administrators to put thosemonies where they have to go, where they can get the highest value for the return, insteadof constantly letting the union boss, which would be tom dooher, stop these reforms andkeep us from putting the ample resources that we have where the greatest need is and wherewe can get the greatest value. (applause) gary eichten: mark dayton. mark dayton: first bonnie, thank you for yourdedication as a special ed teacher. i have a young relative who’s autistic and i knowwhat a challenge that is. and y’know that’s why i tried 7 times in the 6 years i was inthe u.s. senate to get the federal government
to meet its failed promise to provide thefunding for 40% of the cost of special education. that would have been 250 million dollars ofadditional funding for all of the schools in minnesota and would have helped all ofthe students by funding that unfunded mandate. and i will continue to work with the minnesotacongressional delegation if i’m governor. representative john kline has made the casethat this really ought to be the priority for the federal government to fulfill thatunfunded mandate. i agree with him. and i will do everything i possibly can to get thatfunding so that we’re not forcing schools to make those decisions among students. 19:31 tom honrer.
tom horner: well, this is one more area where we need to startwith the outcomes that we have to achieve instead of continuing to create all of thesesilos where we’re going to treat special education that way, we’re going to treatgifted education this way, we’re going to treat early childhood education another way,we really need to be smart about it and start with how do we make sure that every childcoming out of our schools is prepared for the next step in his or her life? whetherit’s into the military, into a job, into more education. how are we preparing themto succeed and then figure out what it is that we need to do to get that child there.and so certainly in special education, do
we need to make some changes, do we need tofocus our resources? without question. but it also starts back at early childhood education,at ecfe, the early childhood and family education, making sure that we have children coming into school prepared for success, so that they can succeed whatever their ability level,that we’re challenging them, that we’re helping them achieve their highest aspirations,their highest abilities, as students in schools that work for all children. gary eichten: quick, quick followup on education,if i may, and a quick response. will schools, next for the next 2 years, have enough newmoney to cover the added cost of increased enrollment and inflation? mark dayton.
mark dayton: well i y’know, the budget i’msupporting would provide for enough money. this is coming from the state’s econometricforecast to fund at the current formula level the funding for the additional 14,000 studentsthat are expected in the schools. which is why when representative emmer says he’sgonna provide just the same level of funding as state and the federal stimulus money combinedfor the next biennium as for this biennium, and there’re 14,000 more students, thenon a per-student basis, that results in a cut. i will continue that level of fundingand i will do my utmost to repay the shift. tom horner: yes, if we move the money fromadministration into the classroom to make sure that the classroom is our priority, andif we’re willing to be bold, to do some
of the reforms that i’ve proposed to makesure that we’re allowing teachers to teach, that we have great principals in every school,that we’re starting children prepared for success as they enter kindergarten. (applause) tom emmer: the answer is yes, as long as you’rewilling to take on tom dooher, the union boss for education minnesota. i’ll tell ya, senator,you just played that typical political game that people do. the state’s commitment toeducation , the k-12 system, is roughly 13.3 billion right now. we’ve added 500 millionto the budget that we’ve proposed. so almost 14 billion. but senator dayton likes to pointout that we’re not including the stimulus. well you can’t guarantee anything from thefederal government right now. that’s not
responsible. not only is the concept thatyou propose, which is making promises about “i’m just gonna keep increasing fundingevery year without any plan for where it’s gonna come from†because we’re not growingjobs, under your plan we’re pushin ‘em out of the state, you add this federal stimulusmoney which there’s no guarantee that the federal government is gonna be able to honorany of these commitments going forward, if we’re gonna be responsible for minnesotawe have to do it with minnesota dollars and see later what the federal government is gonnabe able to do. gary eichten: mark dayton, did you want to,mark dayton do you want to respond?. mark dayton: representative emmer, you’remisunderstanding what i’m saying. in this
biennium current, the state’s paying 13.3billion, and the federal stimulus money is providing 500 million for a total of 13.8billion dollars. your budget for the next biennium calls for the same amount, all fromthe state, 13.8 billion dollars. and, there are going to be 14,000 more students in ourk-12 public schools. so on a per-student basis, that’s a real cut. tom emmer: yeah, and gary, (applause) tom emmer: on a state commitment basis it’snot a cut at all, it’s an increase and i’ll just point out to senator dayton that if you’regoing to be beholden to the union boss tom dooher, you’re not gonna be able to give,you’re not gonna be able to give our professional
educators and our administrators the abilityto use the funds that we have in the way that we’ve just talked about. tom emmer: getting more of it into the classroom.making sure that our teachers have the ability to teach, making sure that our administratorshave the ability to get the highest value. it’s gotta be in the best interest of thestudent, senator dayton, not in the best interest of tom dooher. gary eichten: tom horner. (cheers, applause) tom horner: and i’ll just say if you continueto draw lines with teachers, if you continue to just say that spending is the only answer,how do you move anywhere in the future? i
mean this is just the same kind of the debatewe’ve had for the last 8 years. w need a new discussion for the next 4 years. (applause,cheers) gary eichten: let’s go back to the audience.nancy lebens? (cheers, applause) nancy lebens: gary, i’m here with twilafrom st. paul, she’s wearing a button for emmer. and she has a question about healthcare. twila: yes, as you all know, the health carereform passed in march (applause). and really it is, it requires, it puts a lot of powerat the governor level and the state legislature for implementing it. i am concerned aboutthe provisions in the bill which require everyone to buy an insurance product which is approvedby the government and no other as well as
the provisions that will i believe disruptthe patient/doctor relationship and put the government in charge of looking at all ourmedical records and making our decisions. so i’d like to know as governors, whetheryou are go- willing to commit to not implementing obamacare or if you are committing to go forwardwith it. thank you. tom horner: yes, well and thank you twila,i know that you spent a lot of time on this issue, and sometimes i think you have raisedgood issues, other times, i think you just unnecessarily raise a red flag of alarm. solet me talk about health care reform. (applause) i think there are challenges, problems, weaknessesin the federal health care reform. but it is exactly for that reason that minnesotabetter be a leader in figuring out how to
leverage the federal health reform for lowercost, higher quality care in minnesota, building on what already works in minnesota. and we’regoing to have to be bold and innovative! we’re going to have to do things differently! letme give you an example. the minnesota department of health decided that they needed to reducethe cost of low-income children with asthma. they created a terrific program to help identifythe triggers of asthma attacks that were sending kids into the emergency room. by working withthe families, working with the kids they were able to reduce costs by an average of $2,000per child per year. but more than that, more than that, they were able to reduce schoolabsences by an average of 7 days per child per year. over the course of a 12-year academiccareer, that’s half of a school year. there’s
the achievement gap. there’s lower healthcare costs. there’s innovation if we look at health care from a minnesota perspective,from a community perspective, from “how do we do things better and differently?,â€now just how we were doing things the last 4 years. (applause, cheers) gary eichten: tom emmer, implementing thefederal health care law. tom emmer: i think it’s a, it’s a mistake.i think, i actually authored the minnesota health care freedom act, which would amendminnesota’s constitution to provide that the government can never tell us what decisionswe have to make with our health care. (cheers, applause) i think it’s a complete mistake(cheers, applause) i think it’s a mistake
to believe that government can somehow do,make our health care decisions better than we can. or, to suggest that turning this overto the federal government or even the state government is going to allow us more innovationand allow us to be bold. it’s not the right answer. we have an election on tuesday andi know that some candidates, it seems like half of the candidates in congress, runningfor congress, are now running against the federal health care reform act. and that’smostly democrats. so i don’t think that it’s got a future in terms of the way itwas passed. i think as we go forward, if we’re gonna reform minnesota’s health care system,we have to lead. that’s true. but the way you do it is you don’t turn it over to thefederal government. the way you do it is you
decouple health care insurance from employmentso that individuals can deduct their health care insurance premiums just like any employerdoes now, two you give individuals more control over their ability to design health care insuranceproducts, and you allow them start to shopping, to shop one of the thirteen hundred approvedproducts across this country. and that, you bring market forces in, that’ll drive costsdown without destroying the quality of the health care offered in this state. (cheers,applause) mark dayton: well, i think there’s a lotof fear-mongering y’know about this plan as it will unfold in the future. and i, let’slook at what has happened so far as a result. young people up to the age of 26 can be coveredunder their parents’ health plans. that
means young people who are still in schoolhave that health coverage that many of them wouldn’t have otherwise. you cannot denycoverage to children based on pre-existing conditions. preventative procedures like mammogramsand colonoscopies cannot be required, require a copay. so these are positive steps thatbenefit minnesotans and americans. and i will, if governor, not allow anything to come betweena patient-doctor relationship and the right of every minnesotan to determine who theywant their doctors to be. but so many minnesotans today, because they can’t afford healthinsurance, or they can’t afford the cost of health care even with insurance becauseof the deductibles and copays, they don’t have any relationship with a doctor at all.and the goal ought to be for this society,
to provide every person in this country withaffordable, quality health care.(cheers, applause) gary eichten: we’re going to give, okay,we’re going to give each of the candidates a chance to after all these debates (laughs)they’ve heard from the other candidates, wanna give them a chance to follow up andask a question of each of the other candidates. and mark dayton would you begin please witha question for tom emmer. mark dayton: well representative emmer, youin your proposal will cut on a per-pupil basis the state funding for school children. you’regoing to cut the funding for higher education considerably, and yet despite those cuts foreducation, your budget does not require people making a million, 5 million, 10 million dollarsa year, to pay 1 dollar in higher income taxes.
how can you justify that tradeoff? tom emmer: well first off, mine would. becauseunlike your proposal, mine will grow jobs in the state of minnesota. the more jobs yougrow, not only will the new people that are working start to pay taxes, but you know what?the new businesses, those people that you seem to want to drive out of this state, theywill also pay more in taxes. so to suggest that we don’t want to, it always soundsgood, senator dayton to say “we’re gonna tax this group or that group†cause it alwayssounds good when someone else is gonna pay your way. but that’s not the way it works.you’re gonna tax everybody in this state and you’ve provided a budget that franklyhas a huge billion-dollar gap. and you keep
talkin about how “well maybe i’ll usethe shift,†even though you said earlier in one of our debates or even publicly, “i’mrepayin the shift and i’m putting more money in k-12 education, no excuses, no exceptions.â€and yet we come up here and you talk about “maybe i’ll fill the billion-dollar gapwith the, by not paying the shift, we’ll see what happens with that.†here’s the,here’s the reality. when we talk about per-pupil funding, we’ve got to make sure that westart making decisions and incorporating reforms that are in the best interest of the pupil,the student, and their family, tom emmer: as opposed to the best interestof the union leadership. second, when you talk about higher education,
gary eichten: okay tom emmer: yeah, i am asking higher education,gary, to move into the 21st century. but don’t talk to kids about raising tuition 10% everytime when they can’t get their own house in order. the university of minnesota, gary, tom emmer: their faculty and their administratorscontribute 2 1/2 % to their retirement. the university of minnesota matches that with13%! that’s not responsible. the kids shouldn’t have to pay for that. tom emmer: the – gary eichten: your –
tom emmer: - our higher education institutionsneed to get tom emmer: - their own books in order. (applause) gary eichten: your question for, tom emmer,your question for tom horner please. tom horner: mr. horner, you’ve suggestedyou’re gonna hold lga harmless, you’re gonna hold education harmless, and when isay harmless, you want it to grow, let government grow by almost 20% in the next 2 years beyondthe 7 to 8% new income , that new revenue that we’re gonna have. my question to youis if you’re gonna hold 85% of what government wants to grow at harmless, and you have a2 ? billion dollar hole in your budget, what other taxes are you gonna raise or are yougonna cut veterans’ services, agriculture,
what are you gonna have to cut to meet that2 ? billion dollar hole that is in your budget? tom horner; well, and i think, representativeemmer, that’s the kind of question that comes from a person who can only think aboutgovernment in one way. who can only reflect on what government has done in the last 6years that you’ve been in the legislature. if you think about government differently,if you really take a look at my budget proposal, instead of how you’ve characterized it,what you would see are some creative proposals to really change how we’re going to deliverhuman services. when we have, in many counties, social workers who spend 40% of their timenot serving their clients, but filling out paperwork that the state has imposed, youas the legislator, and other legislators,
the governor, that the state has imposed.when you see in many counties around the state, 40% of property taxes going to pay for unfundedstate mandates, to say that i’m going to increase spending by that much, just reflectsan inability on your part, i think, to see beyond the budget as just a dollars and centskind of document. and that’s why, next year, minnesota will have a 6 billion dollar shortfall.because you refused to deal honestly with a 3 billion dollar shortfall in 2010. (applause,cheers.) that’s what we need to get past. that’s what i’m offering as governor.(cheers, applause) gary eichten: okay. tom horner, your questionfor mark dayton, please. tom horner: well mark, you’ve staked yourentire – campaign really on a single point,
tax the rich, which is at the very far leftof your own party. and then you’ve stood by silently while special interest groupshave come in to spend millions of dollars to further divide the state. so my questionis that, in a career in which you’ve run for office for 35 years, really on the mostpartisan of platforms, continue that this year, it’s really little surprise that youfound yourself isolated in those offices, and not very effective frankly. so if you’reelected, how can you guarantee that the two-thirds of minnesotans who aren’t going to votefor you will have your ear and that you will have their ear? mark dayton: well representative – mr. horner,i y’know if i’m elected, will serve all
of minnesota. as i have done in the otheroffices to which i have been elected. and i have said that if i am elected i will makeevery decision with 1 consideration: what is it that i believe in my heart and my soulis the best for the most people of minnesota. that’s the commitment i would make as governor,i believe that’s the commitment either of you would make as governor. y’know we haveour different points of view on how best to achieve that, but i certainly respect yourcommitment to that process, i respect representative emmer’s, and i would just say again thati will make those decisions with what i believe is best for the future of minnesota. (cheers,applause) gary eichten: let’s shift gears here justa little bit, let’s take the other round
of candidate questions right away and thenwe’ll get back to audience questions here, if we may. tom emmer, your question for markdayton. tom emmer: senator dayton, you have proposeda budget that has almost a billion dollar shortfall. it’s actually your second attempt.and you’ve acknowledged that it’s almost 900 million dollars short, so just shy ofa billion dollars. while at the same time, you’re promising, and i know you call themgoals, but we’ve been in several debates, and we’ve been with you as you’ve promisedall kinds of new education spending, as well as promising to increase education spendingevery year. we’ve listened to you talk about your tax plan. what other taxes are you goingto raise, and please address the income tax
as well. are you going to go beyond the 11%that you promised to raise income taxes to in this state? what other taxes are you gongto raise to try and meet the, not only the spending promises you’re making but thebillion dollar hole you’ve got in your budget. mark dayton: well representative emmer, y’knowas i’ve said i will not raise the income tax rate above the highest, which is 11%,and the top i would raise it to is 10.95%. but going back to your not answering my earlierquestion, i do believe that people making a million, or 5 or 10 million dollars a year,should pay a higher income tax rate than people making $75,000 a year, as is the case in minnesotatoday. i believe in progressive income taxes. i think those that are most successful, andi applaud them for their success, should be
paying a share of their taxes that they’renot today in state and local. and whereas you, with your budget, will increase propertytaxes on middle-income taxpayers. the minnesota department of revenue, we’ve agreed is ourarbiter, says the property tax falls 5 times more heavily on middle-income taxpayers thanit does on the upper-income taxpayers. and as i’ve said clearly and repeatedly in responseto these debates, the 890 million dollars that remains in my budget, if i can’t findthose savings, and i think i’ll find hundreds of millions of dollars, by going in with managementconsultants, but i can’t put a number on that, that’s what they’ve told me they’veachieved with republican/democratic governors in other states, whatever i can’t, i willhave to delay some repayment of the shift.
i would like to repay the shift, because ibelieve in increasing the state commitment to education, squaring our accounts financiallywith the schools. mark dayton: - increasing funding for earlychildhood education and for optional all-day kindergarten, those are goals. but they’regoals that i believe are better for minnesota’s schoolchildren than allowing the wealthiest mark dayton: - people to avoid paying theirfair share of taxes, as you would. gary eichten: okay 37:40 (cheers, applause) gary eichten: tom horner, your question fortom emmer, please. tom horner: well, because i think this wholeissue of how are we going to engage the public,
how are we going to unite the public, howare we going to bring minnesotans together around a common purpose, really is so importantwhether you talk about jobs or restoring trust in our government. that i want to ask representativeemmer a variation on the same question that i asked senator dayton. in the same way thatsenator dayton has staked his campaign on a simplistic slogan so far to the left, you’vestaked your campaign on a single bumper sticker slogan to the right, of just cut spending.and yet you’ve earned a reputation in the legislature as a person maybe fairly describedas more intense about politics than policy, even members of your own party have complainedabout the harshness of your attacks on them. so, my question to you is the same question.if you’re elected, how can you guarantee
that two-thirds of minnesotans who won’tbe voting for you that you will listen to them, or that they will listen to you? tom emmer: well, and i appreciate that, tom.you and i have just gotten to know each other through this process, so i’m not so surewhere you get your information. i have great relationships with both republicans and democratsin the minnesota house of representatives and the senate. more importantly, i have greatrelationships with people out on main street. and i don’t know where somebody comes outand says “it becomes extreme†or “it’s to the right†because you suggest that peopleshould live within their means, that making sure that you don’t spend more than youhave, i don’t know when that became an extreme
position. and i think you’ll find, if youwere traveling with me, that minnesota agrees with us when we talk about living within ourmeans and “stop taxing us so much that you’re driving jobs out of the state of minnesota.â€and senator dayton, i have to tell ya. you keep talking about taxin the rich, but you’renot doin that. you know, and i don’t know how to be anything but respectful and directwhen i tell ya, if you were talking about taxin the rich, you’d be talking about taxinyour trust accounts in south dakota. you’re talking about taxing, you’re talking abouttaxing income generators. income earners. people that are growing... tom emmer: - businesses in this state. that’sgonna drive jobs away from the state of minnesota.
it’s gonna kill the entrepreneurial spirit. tom emmer: that’s what we gotta watch. (cheers,applause) gary eichten: mark (to crowd: please), markdayton, a question for tom horner. mark dayton: mr. horner, you talked aboutyour tax proposal about extending the sales tax to clothing and then to personal services.you’ve been unwilling to specify which personal services you would tax. would you please doso before people vote on tuesday? which specifically, personal services are you going to extendthe sales tax to include? tom horner: sure, well good question senatordayton, thank you for that. and i know that at one point in your past political history,you agreed with the need to expend, extend,
the sales tax. in fact, last time you ranfor governor, you proposed a broader expansion of the sales tax. mark dayton: i’ve, i’ve gotten older andwiser since then. (cheers, applause) tom horner: well, you like to say that, iknow that, i know that, but what really happened, senator, is that the people you were runningagainst in the primary, senator bakk, proposed a sales tax expansion. r.t. rybak, the mayorof minneapolis proposed a sales tax expansion. speaker kelliher opposed your tax plan. idon’t think you got wiser. i think you just stayed as political as you’ve always been.(applause) mark dayton: so,
tom horner; so, let me answer, let me answeryour question. because it it is a good question. y’know, what i’m going to do is, and i’vebeen very bold and very forthright about it, that i do we think we ought to lower the salestax by a full percent. we need tax reform. we have too many people in minnesota who payno income tax at all, and when that happens, there’s a disconnect between the cost ofgovernment and and what we pay. we need to have everyone have a share responsibilityof reducing the cost of government. and the way we do that is to expand the sales tax.to go to more of a consumption tax. we need to stop tom horner: taxing investment and production.we need to start looking at more reliance
on consumption. (cheers, applause) gary eichten: all right, back to to the audience.larissa anderson, please. larissa anderson: gary, gary, i’m here withsteve mckuen from richfield. he’s got a question about jobs. steve mckuen: yes, i keep hearing about jobcreation, but really, nothing concrete throughout the whole campaign i must say. what can anyof you do, what actions can any of you do that can top come january the 21,000 jobsthat would be created by signing on to the federal health care bill? tom emmer: (laughs) well steven, first, idisagree with your premise. that you believe
that we’re going to crate 21,000 new jobswith the federal health care legislation, in fact you may create as many as 160 or 165new bureaucracies which, if you think about it, economics 101, that’s gonna suck evenmore resources out of our private economy to try and support something that franklyis not sustainable and it’s really not responsible. i would suggest that if you go to our website, emmerforgovernor.com, you will see a very specific proposal. how do you createjobs? government doesn’t create jobs. government actually creates the environment that allowsentrepreneurs to thrive. that’s what creates jobs. what you gotta do, 2 things in the stateof minnesota: we don’t need to be the cheapest place to do business in the country or inthe world, we have the greatest workforce
still. we just need to make sure we’re competitive.and that comes from lowering taxes, streamlining regulation, so that we can allow the entrepreneursin this state to start to thrive again. that’s how you’ll grow jobs and we have provideda complete and detailed plan how to do that immediately in the next 2 years. (applause,cheers) mark dayton: it’s just, it’s such a common-sensedecision for the next governor, as i would, on day one, sign the early opt-in to medicaid,which would bring about 1.4 billion dollars in additional federal funding for minnesota,would create, i’ve seen the study of over 20,000 new jobs, or saved existing jobs, inour healthcare system, would provide better quality health care to over 100,000 minnesotans,and very importantly, it would provide financial
stability to minnesota hospitals, particularlythose in greater minnesota, that many of which are hard-pressed financially today. so absolutelyi would sign on day one the early opt-in to medicaid. 44;04 (applause) gary eichten: tom horner. 44:06 tom horner: well, i think the question wasabout job creation, senator. and i can’t . imagine a sharper, clearer distinctionamong the three of us than on job creation. because representative emmer, when you decideto cut spending, when you voted against the bonding bills that you have, there goes thebiomedical discovery district at the university of minnesota, that’s where we’re goingto create the next medtronic. the next st.
jude’s, that’s where we’re going toget our innovation. but senator, your tax plan, you would tax the small businesses,raise their taxes by 30 to 40% on state income taxes, the companies that have 90% of thesmall business jobs in minnesota. they can’t sustain that. they can’t afford that. sowe need to do a couple of things. one is that we should have a 400 million dollar bondingbill next year for shovel-ready projects. get people back to work immediately. thenfix the economic infrastructure of minnesota. streamline the regulatory process, do thekind of health reforms that i’m proposing to make sure we keep the cost of doing businessin minnesota lower, keep investing in education particularly our great two-year schools thatare so important to local regional economic
assets, invest in research, and make surethat we are a state that is always competing on the basis of our great talent pool becausethat always will be our competitive advantage. (cheers, audience) gary eichten: back to the audience, curtisgilbert, please. curtis gilbert: yes, gary, i am here withbob, and he lives in rockford. he hasn’t decided who to support for governor, he’storn between tom horner and tom emmer, and he has a question for all 3 candidates. bob: it’s been known for years that afterevery census we redraw our political boundaries, our districts. the term has been called “gerrymanderingâ€where the party in power will typically use
their power to solidify their power. and itseems to be acknowledged that this causes a lot of problems in creating extremely liberal,extremely conservative districts that then become polarized and it’s been acknowledgedthat a lot of the polarization that we see in our country as well as in our state isthis kind of districting. can i ask each of the candidates to comment on how you feelgerrymandering? and can i ask you for a commitment that if you’re the winner that you woulddo everything in your power to not let that pollute our political atmosphere for the future? tom horner: yes. well bob, that’s a greatquestion, and i agree with you. i think that the one area in the next 4 years, the mostimportant political reform that where the
governor will have an absolutely guaranteedrole is in managing redistricting. and if we don’t create more competitive legislativedistricts, there’s no reason to expect that we will have democrats willing to take risksif they’re always in safe districts, or republicans willing to take risks. we willhave a continuation of the gridlock. so here’s what i’ve promised. and i’m the only onewho can make this promise. is that we will get it out of the political world. we willmove redistricting to an independent commission as has been recommended by some former governors,by experts who have looked at it, and we will do it in a way that reflects the best interestsof minnesotans: competitive, balanced legislative districts. not republican districts. not democraticdistricts. minnesota districts.
gary eichten: mark dayton. (cheers, applause) mark dayton: i believe the last 3 redistrictinghave by default gone to judicial panels in minnesota, and i absolutely agree, that that’swhere it ought to be done, either by an independent commission or by an independent judicial panel.both in reality and perception we should take politics out of it. and it should be doneto assure the integrity of the representation of minnesota, as well as to assure minnesotansof the integrity of our electoral process. (applause) tom emmer: bob, what i would tell you is thatif i’m in the governor’s office, it will be fair. absolutely.
gary eichten: i know, i know you gentlemenhave spent all of these debates, almost all of the debates talking about the budget issueand appropriately so, it’s the big one, but back to those issues, which i know, mr.emmer, you’d rather not talk about and you’d – it just hasn’t come up often. but thereare folks who are really interested in where you’re gonna stand on the social issues,and let me start with you tom emmer if i may. will you back tighter restrictions on abortionsin the state of minnesota? tom emmer: you know what, gary, i’ve neversaid i won’t talk about it. what i’ve said is, y’know i’m the only pro-lifecandidate up here (applause) but that’s not the issue.
gary eichten: well that’s – tom emmer: that is not an issue. what i havesaid, regularly, every time these issues are brought up, gary, is we’ve gotta talk aboutthe things that unite us. gary eichten: well we have been tom emmer: because these issues: gary eichten: yeah, but we have been talkingabout that, and i think it’s fair to say, if you’re elected governor, would you support,push for tighter restrictions? tom emmer: i don’t think it is at this point,gary. i think what we’re talking about in this state is jobs and the economy. and ifwe keep focusing or trying to distract our
attention to things that just slow us downand divide us, we’re not gonna do the things that we have to upfront, gary. this election gary eichten: well, yet the legislature sendsyou a bill (emmer, inaudible) which would tighten restrictions, or relax restrictionson abortion, would you sign it or veto it? tom emmer: i, i answered the question. i’vegot a very clear record on where i stand when it comes to pro-life. i’m gonna be a jobsand economy guy if i’m elected to the governor’s office. (applause, cheers) gary eichten: mark dayton, would you activelypush for civil unions or legalization of same-sex marriage if elected?
mark dayton: i believe in marriage equality(applause, cheers) and i believe that the founding principles of this country that allmen and women are created equal. endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.among those are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. that certainly should includethe right of every minnesotan to marry the man or woman he or she loves. gary eichten: so you’d – (cheers, applause) mark dayton: i would. yes i would supportit. and i would promote it. and i would sign it. gary eichten: tom horner, would you activelypush for civil unions, same sex marriage provisions?
tom horner: y’know for the last severalyears, both in my community service career as well as my professional career, i’veworked for a terrific organization called project 515 that works to eliminate the discriminationthat are inherent in some of the statues in minnesota. everything from making sure thatsame-sex families can get discounted fishing licenses the way, same way as other families,all the way to more important decisions like end of life. i think we need to continue workingin that area, but i also will advocate for marriage equality. because i do think thatwe ought to have a society, a state, that embraces diversity, that respects equality.(applause, cheers) gary eichten: lots of talk during the courseof the campaign about health care costs. clearly,
costs are going up so dramatically. shouldminnesotacare program, set up as a kind of safety net program for the working poor, shouldthat be scrapped? mark dayton? mark dayton: it should be not be scrapped,no, and one of the reasons the early opt-in for medicaid is so important is because itwill relieve the financial pressure on minnesotacare by which has resulted from the governor decimatinggamc and shifting some of those clients to minnesotacare and threatening the financialstability there. so, but no, it plays a very important role in providing health insurancefor those minnesotans who otherwise would go without healthcare and would go to ouremergency rooms, require more expensive care, so it benefits them and it benefits our broadersociety because it relieves that pressure
on our emergency rooms so they can provideaffordable care for those who really need it. (applause, cheers) tom horner: well i don’t think it shouldbe scrapped, but i also don’t agree that we can just take the status quo and make ita lot bigger. the cost of public health programs is unsustainable and we do need to get aholdof it while we improve quality. and so i think there are a couple of things. one, i do agreethat we ought to take the early opt-in to medicaid. not because we get federal dollars.but because we can expand coverage and we won’t get to real reform if we don’t expandcoverage. but secondly, lookit, minnesota, the state, the government, is the largestpurchaser of health care in the state. for
its employees, for public health programs.and we have yet to use that purchasing power with this governor, with this legislature,under senator dayton’s proposal we have yet to use that purchasing power to reallyfigure out how do we redesign healthcare. how do we drive some of these efficiencies?how do we hold people accountable for their own behavior? how do we improve prevention?i’m the only one who has laid out specific programs to do that. now if they’re goingto take, taking on some of the special interests in minnesota, but we better do it. if we wantto lower the cost and improve quality, and expand coverage for minnesotans, then we needto take on some of these challenges and take ‘em on realistically. (cheers, applause)
tom emmer: senator dayton, i will tell ya,i don’t think turning over our healthcare system to the federal government is a, it’snot leadership for minnesotans and it’s not a good idea for the long term. this earlyopt-in that you suggest is going to solve some of the issues with minnesotacare, franklyis the wrong answer. it’s actually going to make it worse if you opt in to early ma.think about it. y’know, we’ve got 11 states that were given the opportunity to do thisearly opt-in. only 2 accepted the offer and they still have yet to get any money. there’sno guarantee that the federal government’s gonna come through with any of this. whenyou talk about minnesotacare, gary, minnesotacare needs to be reformed. all public programsneed to be reformed. they need to be more
individual based. not more government based.they need to be more individual based. and i’ve pro – presented a bill in the legislaturewhich would turn minnesotacare from the program that it is right now, a turnkey if you willgovernment insurance program, where somebody comes in, looking for this healthcare safetynet, and they’re absorbed into the government system. their claims are administered by governmentemployees et cetera. the reform is more individual based. let’s give them the same benefitbut with a private healthcare premium voucher where they can go participate in the middleclass, with the middle class for their health care insurance just like everybody else inminnesota. gary eichten: back to the audience. nancylebens, please.
nancy lebens: gary, gary, i’m here withmarcia from maplewood. she’s deaf, and her question will be interpreted by heather. marcia, interpreted by heather: when the adawas passed in 1990, only 22% of people with disabilities were employed. now, 20 yearsalter, in 2010, that number has not increased. what will you do as governors to develop yourjobs program for the state to end the discrimination and increase the number of people with disabilitieswho are hired? (applause) gary eichten: okay. let’s see, mark dayton,why don’t you go first please mark dayton: i’ll start by leading withexample. in my administration, hiring people with disabilities because i agree with you,that’s shameful that that percent has not
increased. and i will encourage private employersthroughout minnesota to follow my leadership and my example and hire people with disabilities,because i know they’re incredibly talented people who have many contributions to makethrough our society. (applause) tom emmer: well i serve in the legislaturewith representative torrey westrom from elbow lake, minnesota. and he’s legally blind.to me we have laws right now, marcia, that deal with discriminating against anyone basedon their physical condition. age, physical condition. we need to enforce the laws thatwe have and the most important thing we can do is start to grow jobs in this state sothat there are more jobs that can fill, that can be filled by people from every walk oflife including those that have to deal with
physical disabilities. (applause) tom horner: but you know, with all due respectto representative emmer, i mean that’s the same kind of answer as the one you just gaveon health care. look, it’s great to say we’ll give vouchers for everybody (applause),it’s great to say you’re going to give vouchers for health care to everybody, butif the cost of health care is too expensive, if you, lookit, my wife as you know tom, imean my wife is a cancer survivor. if i don’t win on tuesday, we don’t have health insurance.we’re going to have a tough time buying it in the private marketplace. that’s thereality whether i have a voucher or not. and so with the disabled workers, here’s thereality. is that we have cut important support
services for the disabled, including personalcare attendants. we need to make sure that we’re creating the opportunity for all peopleto succeed, for all people to have the opportunity for minnesota to be a hospitable state, foreveryone regardless of their ability. (applause, cheers) gary eichten: we don’t have much time left,but i wanted to ask you, you gentlemen have been part of a really unique political experiment,social experiment, 26 debates. is this a good way for future statewide candidates -- senate,governor – to conduct their campaigns? you think this is a good way for the state tooperate politically? tom emmer. tom emmer: in terms, gary, of the debateswe’ve had?
gary eichten: yeah! the next ones, shouldthey be expected to run 26 debates? tom emmer: well i would never say that thingsshould, because it works this time, that’s the way you do it next time. you should alwaysbe looking at the circumstances that present themselves at the time you’re talking about.but today? for somebody like me? this has been fantastic. i mean i’m a guy from delanominnesota that’s raisin this great family and tryin to run a small business that nobody,almost nobody had heard of just 16 months ago. this has given me the opportunity withthese 2 fine men to introduce myself to minnesotans all over the state. it’s been a great opportunity,i think. (applause, cheers) mark dayton: gary, i think it’s been terrificfor minnesota, i think it says so much positive
about minnesotans, interest in this electionand our participation in the election process which has always been one of the very bestof any state in the nation. it’s a great antidote for 30-second soundbite- 30-secondcommercials and 7-second sound bites, and it’s given people all over minnesota a chanceto see us firsthand an d hear from us directly. tom horner: yeah, y’know, for me again imean i can’t compete with the millions of dollars they’ve been able to spend out oftheir own pocket, their special interest groups, so for me the form has been terrific. theone change i’d recommend is that we do more of these debates in communities around thestate, and really get out because part of the value is interacting with a live audience,dealing with the people, we ought to be part
of greater minnesota, more than we have throughthe 26 debates we’ve done. (applause) gary eichten: okay before we wrap up i wantedto give each of the candidates 30 seconds here to make a final pitch for your vote.candidates drew straws, tom horner goes first. tom horner: well, thank you very much. it’sbeen a great honor to run for governor. here’s the question that i hope you ask yourselvesas you vote on tuesday. why is it that all of those who follow the election most closely – most of the newspapers around the state, local newspapers, former governors, the localofficials who have endorsed me, all have come out and said i’m the one person who canbring minnesota together, who can create jobs, who can build a future. and so i’d ask youthis: vote your conscience. go into the polls
knowing that a vote for tom horner is a votefor tom horner and the people of minnesota. thank you. (applause, cheers) gary eichten: all right, independence partycandidate tom horner. next up, republican tom emmer. (applause) tom emmer: i also want to say thank you toall of you that are here today, thanks to public radio, gary, to my colleagues for dointhis. there are 3 people runnin, there are 2 messages. these 2 gentlemen believe yougotta raise billions of dollars of taxes yet again to grow government beyond its means.i think it’s time for government to live within the revenue it has and start to growjobs. i am the only candidate that will not
raise taxes on middle-class minnesotans orany other minnesotan for that matter. (cheers, applause, cheers) appreciate your support! gary eichten: that’s republican tom emmer.and finally, democrat mark dayton. (applause) mark dayton: i want to thank you, the peopleof minnesota for considering my candidacy, and i want to respectfully ask you for yoursupport next tuesday. i will be the jobs governor for minnesota based on my experience as commissionerof economic development twice for this state, i will go anywhere in this state nation orworld if there are jobs to be gained for minnesota. i will make taxes fair and i will invest thatmoney in education so we can give every one of our children a chance to be successfulin the global economy. the theme of my campaign
is a better minnesota. and if you will trustme with the office of governor, i will work every day and every night to crate a betterstate for all of us. thank you. (cheers, applause) gary eichten: gentlemen, thanks so much! that’sall the time we have this afternoon. thanks to all the candidates for joining us and goodluck on tuesday. thanks to those of you at the fitzgerald theater and all of you listeningon the radio and the web for joining us. now, if you’d like to hear the debate again we’llbe rebroadcasting it at noon tomorrow on midday. and we’ve collected all of these debatesat mprnews.org for you to listen to at your
federal health care reform act,leisure. make sure you stay tuned, mpr newsand cathy wurzer will be along in just a minute with a reaction and analysis program. thentuesday, election day, we’ll be on the air
at 7 o’clock with live election night coveragefrom around the state and around the nation. sara myer the producer of our election coverage,tom campbell is the manager of the fitzgerald.